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ODG6Actual
19 Oct 2010, 15:08
Ok so here's where Im going to continue forward on my recent MOH article about everyone talking about nerfing the sniper rifle (http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2010/10/nerf-sniper-rifle). I still believe that other things can and should be done before you go dialing back a rifle.

MAPS

No more spawning on players this 'feature' drives me nuts. You have a solid defense and ONE guy slips through the net, you send out one or two troops to go hunt him down at the objective only to discover that AS they were waiting to take the objective half the team has spawned on him and are now packed into the downed chopper like a bulging can of whoopass... your defense has gone from effective to infiltrated in 5 spawns.

Spawn in the rear with the gear which not only acts like a punishment for catching a bad case of lead poisoning but spawn far enough in the rear that you are out of range of snipers and in an off enemy limits area.

Rear spawn localized with multiple points of entry onto the map. You spawn onto the rear area which is obscured from the visible battle area. You are then presented with a good number of access ways into the main area through trees (natural barriers), over a ridge, around a bend, a cave, a tunnel etc... visible lanes INTO the battle area should be at different angles so that a working sniper on the opposite side doesnt have a chokepoint view of more than any one or two entry points. A good example in my book would like you make a long climb up a ridgeline to come over from above (counter sniper) or just make that enemy sniper have to work a larger field.

PLAYER MECHANICS

IF you are hit by bullets, lets act like it. While a large number of us have never been shot before, you should note that even the most hardened veteran will twist, slow, stop, fall, trip or dive for cover reactively to a bullet hit or near miss. If your friend is sighting you and you shoot them they WILL lose the sight picture as the impact moves the body. This would stop people from being stock still knowing that the first round may not kill them.

Blast area effects increased. So far Ive seen that if you're caught in the blast you're dead.. if your close to the blast you take some damage and if you're on the outside edge you get the ringing and a little blurring. How about we make it so that if you're sighting.. your going to jumble around like a bowl of jello and that shot you were intending ISNT going to happen the way you intended. If you're running you should get some wobble or slow down as any human would be impacted and pushed away from the force of the blast.

HARDWARE

SMOKE grenades are intended to be a good way to cover or mark an area long enough to get men through or for an overflight to target. Right now the smoke dissipates far too quickly. Sure that means you could smoke up the map but honestly, this is realistic and becomes an effective tool rather than a 4th of july smoke bomb.

PERKS

Mortars, Rockets, Cruise Missile and Close Air Support ALL TAKE TIME TO DELIVER! Sure you can call this crap in, give them a 12 digit grid square to nuke but let me give away the secret military tip... a mortar team needs a little time to adjust to your given coords and then send rounds, a rocket strike either from MLRS or Apache's also need the coords relayed and then targetted before the button gets mashed and the rocket reaches destination, a Cruise Missile (I try not to laugh at this one but I cant help it) comes typically from a SHIP offshore and unless your taking a port you will sight that target, your sender will confirm that order (because hey, its a million dollars a shot or something like that) and you'll want time to scoot the area and THEN it goes out and downrange and last Close Air Support even IF on station (flying overhead on standby) will need the coordinates, will have to turn to position and then delivery payload.

The bottom line here is that Im cool with people getting these items, I think you'll think twice about mashing the button on calling it in if you run the risk that your target(s) arent in the same area when the rounds drop. This is why this stuff is used when an enemy is fixed (stuck in one place) or hardened (fortified position).

SCOPES AND SIGHTS

Scopes shouldn't give you magical eyeballs. In game if you bring up your sights and you have any type of zoom the whole world zooms the same as the world through the scope. Now if the whole view WAS the scope... fine but thats not the case here. I find that you can kind of cheat the system because while you're using a nice 12x scope you also have a vista view at the same power around the outside. This is a cheat in my book because you should have to SCAN with a scope for targets outside good normal 1x visual which means that rifle is moving a lot and not jerking to traverse in an instant.

There is also natural distortion and your eyes need to adjust to the change in the scope IF you're going to sight anything through it when you first bring it up. I recommend a brief (like 1 or 2 second) adjustment period (sight picture clears up etc) to compensate and simulate for this effect. People dont pull up sights and fire the round immediately IF they're intent on using the scope for anything but a picatinny rail decoration.

Movement equals sight picture wavering. If you run, you're not sighting anything beyond the general pointing of your barrel, you wont be using the scope and IF you do that things going to be jumping around like you lit the cat on fire. Any number of factors can impact scope usefulness... heavy breathing, unsupported firing position, running, walking, equipment physics. While its a game and you cant account as much for the weight you're toting, the fast you move, the more useless your scope becomes. When you see people walking with weapons up they are also fixated on the end of the weapon and walk slowly to target and improve movement based firing accuracy.

MISC

Repeat after me, I do not have a crosshair tattooed to my retina. Ok, so lets all agree that if the weapon has a scope, iron sights or hell, a barrel then you have the tools you need to point the weapon where the flashy end needs to be. It is NOT hardcore to turn this off... its stupid to have it on. I cant even think of any good reason why it should be there. Since its ALWAYS in the middle of your playable area (screen) then shouldnt you already know about where the hell that is?

Whats with the HIT cue? If I hit a target, it screams and falls or limps or even just stops shooting briefly while it regroups (see the getting hit effect above) so why do I need an X to tell me that Ive landed a round? One excellent part of the excitement factor is... 'damn, did I drop him or is he still kickin?'. Here again I find that IF you wonder then you'll take more time to get solid shots OR at least confirm your kills before you move onto another target or dart out from cover. Believe me, for those who feel they NEED something to indicate if the target is down, once they get smoked by the merely wounded target a few times, they'll change how they work.

Anti-tank Weapons

Anti-tank weapons are called that because they are primarily for armored or heavy vehicles, NOT PERSONNEL. Now I realize that on the battlefield RPGs get some pretty creative usage but lets address some physics that if added would dissolve the NOOB TOOB debate.

- AT weapons have a substantial back blast, they are fired from an open ended tube for a very good reason in that if you fired one without it, the resulting force would pull the whole thing right out of your arms if not take you for a ride in reverse you may not live to share later.

- Overpressure is a killer... just like a concussion grenade can be more deadly in an enclosed space the pressure wave of AT weapons fired in an enclosed space can neatly take you out of the game. Maybe you're not dead but the ability to hear is a key component of combat effectiveness. The update, fire it inside take damage or you get killed (by the way, your buddies in the room playing poker they're toast too, welcome to Teamkill-ville)

- Backblast area NOT clear, if you're sure you're out in the open and fire one and an unfortunate friend spawns or rounds the corner then fire up the bar-b-que because he's toasted like marshmallows at a campfire. Im older and would have to look up the backblast but I believe conservatively you're looking at 15 to 25 feet back there to be safe.

- Minimum distance to detonate, you betcha... weapons engineers are pretty smart people, they try to make deadly weapons that are deadly to the people on the business end and fairly safe for the operator and close friends. That in mind, most anti-tank weapons fire a rocket that arms after firing which means that its a big fire breathing spear for 30 meters and THEN it becomes the explosive device that it was intended to be. They are not designed to be fired 20 feet in front of you at the ground in some last ditch 'screw you' move to turn it into a grenade. RPGs detonate on contact (when they work because frankly they're a little bit on the hit/miss side) when the pointy end hits its subject so you can go a bit more wild west with these things BUT if realistic splash damage radius is setup, it should result in you, the enemy and your innocent friends onto the big cattle car ride into the hereafter.

ok.. so those are some of the things that were brewing in my skull over the last 24 hours after putting out my article on nerfing the sniper rifle (http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2010/10/nerf-sniper-rifle) so I might add to this but I sure would love your feedback (and by feedback I mean calm, respectful points and facts mixed with opinions based on careful consideration, not mouth diarrhea or you'll just get deleted and whats the point of that).

flickenmaste
19 Oct 2010, 16:51
I think they should add a realism mode that has no crosshairs, no hit markers, and slower calls for airsupport. Also adds the slowing effect from being hit.

They should also come out with a game mode that has no respawning and a little more realistic gameplay.

.Heavy
19 Oct 2010, 17:13
I like the article.

I played war games in the past as a pilot, ship captain or whatever. There were manuals an inch thick in those days detailing the systems you had to master in order to effectively function in the battle space. It takes time to do things and more time for to find out how effective or not.

Today it's a bit arcadey or dumbed down a little bit. I still fly FSX Deluxe and take pleasure in correctly taking a 747 through the correct path re the diagram and ATC to touch down. Not just yeehaa dive to the runway.

The Mortars instant strikes rub me the wrong way. In JO (Joint ops Novalogic) my favorite weapon was the mortar and I would recieve calls either Text or on ventrillo regarding targets and where. It took a little time for the rounds to scream into the target area. Usually every enemy is diving into any cover they can find.

Sometimes I had to determine my own range to a APC in the open or over a hill and lay down as best as I can suppressive fire or even hopefully drive it off damaged or destroy it.

I agree with the things said about the sight picture.

In real life I am left eyed dominant and right handed, my sight picture I receive at the range or whatever takes a little time to resolve. If I am hit or disturbed in any way during this, everything is disrupted.

In the game world the sights are perfect, flawless and switches easily back and forth. eh... Let's loosen that up shall we?

Oh yes, it is nice and dusty up there. You are not gonna be running 1000 yards quickly while hacking up a lung in thin air that only Chinooks can fly in.

I don't particularly like the X mark for damaged target. I want to see a Arm fly off or a fountain of fresh blood splatter or perhaps the target spun around or knocked down depending on where the round hit.

I want that target to also be handicapped as well by the loss of the affected body part struck by a round.

Not only that, all I might hear is a thud as my round hits the target. Usually in real life you hear a variety of human generated sounds due to the hit, ranging from screams, curses, gurgling or other sounds as may befit the specific situation the wounded or fatal is in.

Believe me, a round inside you is not going to allow you to hop up, dive behind cover and pop up instantly to return fire with a perfect everything.

If you happen to get it in the legs and gotta crawl like a broken crab, so be it.

Oh, one more thing.

The Single Player is good. The Multiplayer issue you a bent and rusted rifle out of mothballs and just the basics.

How would you feel going to war with just iron sights on a rifle that is supposed to touch someone some distance out? For example in Multiplayer yesterday I am already engaging level 10 expert snipers with thier super duper eye-see-all scopes with my crappy little red dot or no zoom scope with the M24.

However, with a little thought towards human actions and possible prediction on enemy sniper habits, I come out ahead because there is only like... 3 rocks in each avenue of approach to objective to cover. Easy enough.

I don't know about you, but I suspect there are a lot more places than that to hide in any given spot in the world.

Finally during the beta I suffered a death from a hacker every respawn with Mortar strike all the way to cruise missile.

I had no idea that my pathetic little game life is worth that much technology and expenditure of American Power and Money in such a few short moments. And because of this, when on defense I make sure I am in a nice cave with a bit fat mountain above me in certain places and still slow or stop the enemy advance.

You will need a special Thermobaric bomb with laser riding technology to get into the cave and burn it all out.

I always spawn back at home base or whatever is currently the main spawn. The battle has changed in the few moments that I am dead and I need to reestablish my picture of the situation. I hate spawning on top of other players only to be shot instantly and worse yet, reveal that player's location as well.

As a Sniper I work alone. When I see a bunch of teammates gather around me.. say 6 or more... I run the hell out of the area because enemy strike is inbound.

Lunch Meat
19 Oct 2010, 18:28
Nice read Rigger, I like all the suggestions.

RobO2112
19 Oct 2010, 21:53
Rigger, Heavy, nice posts. I wish I had something to add besides "I agree." But, I don't heh.

ODG6Actual
20 Oct 2010, 11:30
Added the AT weapons section and maxed out my post count so further updates will be added in replies.

ODG6Actual
20 Oct 2010, 12:03
This just in from MOH

A second PC patch is on the way for Medal of Honor's multiplayer. We have been working on the feedback from the forums that you posted during the PC beta. We are listening to your major concerns and are pleased to show you the change/fix list.
GENERAL
• Fixed the scenario when joining a friend on a password protected server caused a hang
• Ribbons and medals appear on unranked servers
• Jumping and shooting at the same time now affects the ability to be accurate with the weapons
• Added aiming spot in binoculars in hardcore mode
• Holding your breath and moving forward no longer takes you out of scope
• Modifications in weapon behaviour *see weapon tweaks below
• Increased the points needed to win a Domination/TDM game
-- Increased TDM score from 1200 to 1400 points
-- Increased Sector Control score from 1800 to 2600 points
• Decreased accuracy while shooting from the hip
• Cut points from score chain rewards in half
• Addressed the sniper rifle damage to bring the sniper rifle more in line with the other kits
• Increased the amount of recoil and spread *see weapon tweaks below
• Changed immortal time to 1.9 from 1.6 seconds after spawn to prevent the scenario of spawning in the open only to be shot on spawn in

WEAPONS
• Assault Rifles
-- Increased recoil
-- Deviation
--- Increased deviation when not zooming
--- Deviation bug fixed (increased while shooting)
-- Lowered close range damage
-- Jumping deviation increased
• Carbines
-- Increased recoil
-- Deviation
--- Increased deviation when not zooming
--- Deviation increses faster than assault rifles
--- Deviation bug fixed (increased while shooting)
-- Jumping deviation increased
• Sniper rifles
-- Headshot does the most damage
-- Less damage from bolt action
--- 2 shots to kill on body from long range
--- 1 shot on body from short range
---- Normal: 8m
---- Ammo 2: 10m
---- Range: 9.6m
-- Increased recoil on semi-automatic
• Soldier
-- Damage by hit point
--- Head
---- Headshots as before
--- Body
---- Body shots as before
--- Arms and legs
---- 20% less damage

.Heavy
20 Oct 2010, 13:53
Thank you for the list.

In other words, they are nerfing the sniper rifles again. aren't they?

I cannot tell you how many kills were in the Shahikot Mountains from the US Spawn I have made directly against the far left pass where enemies just pop up and walk into the kill zone.

There was a level 13 sniper there behind the big rock on the right with just his head, or better describe it, just the forehead and top of skull showing. A most difficult shot. But it can be made.

I predict that once Snipers acquire the telescopic sights in later levels, the body hits will be irrelevant as head shots will be more common and routine.

I see this pattern, game after retail game release in many years of gaming. Sniper weapons get nerfed or some other powerful weapon get nerfed by those unwilling to accept their own failures and getting shot down for it.

Why is it I must see the Developers cave in time after time to these people who fill forums. The weapons on all classes are great. Leave it. It's the minds of some gamers who are the ones flawed.

SgtDred
20 Oct 2010, 17:20
Spawn in the rear

IF you are hit by bullets, lets act like it. Blast area effects increased.

SMOKE grenades are intended to be a good way to cover

Anti-tank weapons are called that because they are primarily for armored or heavy vehicles,

I agree nice post.

MMcAlpine11b
20 Oct 2010, 17:43
Any word on Xbox updates? I'm at work and can't access the EA forums.

Checkmate11B
20 Oct 2010, 21:27
I agree with all those points, but feel I must add:

Map Layout
I've been playing A LOT of Sector Control and Objective Raid, and the layouts of the maps really favor one team or the other. Unlike Combat Mission where the maps flow, or even Team Assault where the maps are open game to any team, the map layouts for Sector Control and Objective Raid give the advantage to one team over another initial spawn wise. It's especially noticeable on Diwagal Camp, where the OPFOR team spawns nearer the hills and caves overlooking the village, thus giving them prime real estate to launch attacks and get overwatch. Other times, in games of Objective Raid, the defenders start with better spots, or the attackers start closer to the objectives. Other times, the maps favor spawn camping, not even providing a "neutral" spawn (like in Combat Mission).

I feel that some serious thought needs to be put into changing the way these spawns and maps are designed. It gets horribly frustrating to play these modes currently.

.Heavy
20 Oct 2010, 21:59
I agree with your points.

I stick with Combat Mission Maps because they flow and on defense provide lucrative opportunity to slaughter and butcher the enemy once they all pass by wholesale.

I do need a little room to fight. Some of the maps you mentioned in the other game modes are too tight for me. Old and slow = Fat target and dead.

I will want to say two things to LEAVE alone.

Pistol and No killcam whatsoever.

Sometimes the Kill cam gives away too much and gets people killed. There are enough smart opponents who take note of where they were killed and aim to hunt me down without a cam.

Kill em, escape the scene of the crime LOL.

Checkmate11B
20 Oct 2010, 22:37
I agree with your points.

I stick with Combat Mission Maps because they flow and on defense provide lucrative opportunity to slaughter and butcher the enemy once they all pass by wholesale.

I do need a little room to fight. Some of the maps you mentioned in the other game modes are too tight for me. Old and slow = Fat target and dead.

I will want to say two things to LEAVE alone.

Pistol and No killcam whatsoever.

Sometimes the Kill cam gives away too much and gets people killed. There are enough smart opponents who take note of where they were killed and aim to hunt me down without a cam.

Kill em, escape the scene of the crime LOL.
Agreed. The pistol actually takes skill to use in this game. But it also makes a good side arm for CQC if you're using something like the M60.

I love Combat Mission, but:
1. I need the acheviements on 360 for playing 2 hours of Team Assault and Sector Control.
2. I get tired of playing Helmand, Mazar, and Shiakhat over and over again (even though the maps do flow nicely and play differently almost every time).